@Frank, @David: thanks for doing this.
I agree th...
Steve · 2011-07-03T21:47:19.112000
@Frank, @David: thanks for doing this.
I agree that (particularly had I *only* wanted to make this change) it would have been better to content Frank directly. I don't claim perfection in the ways that I do things, and I am glad for your assistance in reaching a satisfactory conclusion.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with censorship....
Simon Hibbs · 2011-07-04T12:23:41.270000
This has nothing whatsoever to do with censorship. Pulling these packages from the Cheeseshop would not suppress their existence or infringe on anyone's rights. The ability to upload to the Cheeseshop is a privilege, not a right.
The PSF owns the Cheeseshop and can host or not host whatever packages it wants for whatever reasons it wants. It's also responsible for making those decisions.
There's nothing brave or noble about aiding and abetting the promulgation of abuse.
One more thing.
The fact that the PSF never even ...
Simon Hibbs · 2011-07-04T13:14:40.845000
One more thing.
The fact that the PSF never even contacted the package's author/maintainer just reinforces my opinion that this is a case of collective responsibility-dodging. It appears that a polite request is all it would have taken.
We'll never know, will we? This begs the ques...
Steve · 2011-07-04T13:30:46.667000
We'll never know, will we? This begs the question of why an English-speaking author would willingly choose a name like "pantyshot" in the first place. If you had read the comments above you would have sen me acknowledge that contacting Frank Smit directly would have been preferable
Note that "the PSF" felt (which is to say the Board collectively decided) that it was not our place to start policing the names of packages in the cheese shop. Therefore this post was not made on the PSF blog.
Just the same, if this makes people think twice before choosing obviously contentious names then we may have done something to make the open source environment slightly less hostile to women. Anyone who says that isn't a desirable goal is still living in the 20th (or should that be 19th?) century.
@Frank Smit: an otaku member of the PSF has explai...
Steve · 2011-07-04T15:43:13.441000
@Frank Smit: an otaku member of the PSF has explained the associations of the new name in anime. It sounds like rather an apt choice!
@Steve: Heh, I first had to figure out what "...
Frank Smit · 2011-07-04T16:48:16.558000
@Steve: Heh, I first had to figure out what "apt" means. I'm happy everything is solved now.
It's sad to see that political correctness has...
Anonymous · 2011-07-05T08:30:46.164000
It's sad to see that political correctness has leaked to the OSS world.
@Amanda C:
Not only is it juvenile, it is offe...
Anonymous · 2011-07-05T09:07:24.196000
@Amanda C: Not only is it juvenile, it is offensive and troubling that someone would title any project "upskirt".
How is it troubling that there are immature people on the internet? Are you really that easily offended? Let me recommend something non-interactive, like CSPAN or button collecting. The internet is *not* for you, too much free speech can be overwhelming for some.
The title conjures images of personal privacy violations and sexual assault (albeit non-violent, though that shouldn't diminish it's impact). People can indulge in 'deviant' activity safely and harmlessly; an act like this doesn't have to be assault, and making this assumption proves you to be as small-minded as the people who made this (maybe moreso, since there's a chance they did it to spark debate or be racy, whereas you are obviously reacting in a knee-jerkish fashion).
Furthermore, it makes light of a fairly gender-specific issue, causing me to raise an eyebrow about the creator's attitude towards women in general.
Fair enough, but sometimes men wear skirts, too. Pretty gender-specific, though, yeah.
Perhaps I don't know enough about programming and software culture to "get it."
Now you're just playing dumb. People are posting here to denounce this and you're sighing melodramatically and shaking your head. "Maybe I'm just a silly country girl and I just don't 'get it'..." Nobody gets it, they're probably 15 years old. The point of this post is that this sort of childish behaviour doesn't -- and shouldn't -- be considered representative of the programming (specifically py/os) community, which is very friendly, respectful, and welcoming to anyone who is willing to put forth the time and effort to become a part of it.
As the partner of someone who is very active in the Python community, I've heard so much about what is being done to make the Python community more open and welcoming to women; You can imagine how surprised and appalled I was upon reading this.
Because someone named a python package 'upskirt' or 'pantyshot'? Grow up, please. "Picture of girl in underpants" should *not* send you into this kind of tizzy, and the fact that it caused such a kerfuffle as to merit so much attention (board and Guido himself) should be indicative that this is absolutely not the norm.
I find it hard to believe that anyone would consider it "censorship" to disallow the use of sexually perverse language that implies any form of sexual exploitation.
Well, FUCK YOU. I find it hard to believe you are so quick to compromise one of the most basic (and probably most important) tenets of freedom, and for such a silly reason. If I find homosexuality perverse, or females using computers perverse and unwholesome, or your piercing fetish perverse and disgusting, I have no right to disallow you from naming your creations "gaylove" or "femPower" or "pierced_glans", that's just not how it works.
To allow it seems deleterious to any outreach efforts.
Obviously I'm in the minority here, as most people are so falling over themselves to prove that they can be sensitive and butthurt that they can't see your selfrighteous tirade for what it is, but if you were a representative sample of our outreach targets, I'd cease to be a supporter of said outreach.
I really wish developers would give their projects...
postmodern · 2011-07-05T09:09:56.597000
I really wish developers would give their projects meaningful names. Upskirt or Pantyshot tells us nothing, and is just pandering for some laughs.
Names, they should mean something.
You should definitely submit an Issue about the na...
Anonymous · 2011-07-05T09:18:18.622000
You should definitely submit an Issue about the name of Upskirt on the GitHub project (https://github.com/tanoku/upskirt/issues). Blog posts can only accomplish so much, eventually bugs or patches have to be submitted.
PS: Apparently @tanoku decided just now to rename Pantyshot to Misaka (https://github.com/tanoku/upskirt/commit/a87645ed92acee789d9305f26a236ff3d4b3cd62).
@Frank, @David: thanks for doing this. I agree th...
Steve · 2011-07-03T21:47:19.112000
@Frank, @David: thanks for doing this.I agree that (particularly had I *only* wanted to make this change) it would have been better to content Frank directly. I don't claim perfection in the ways that I do things, and I am glad for your assistance in reaching a satisfactory conclusion.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with censorship....
Simon Hibbs · 2011-07-04T12:23:41.270000
This has nothing whatsoever to do with censorship. Pulling these packages from the Cheeseshop would not suppress their existence or infringe on anyone's rights. The ability to upload to the Cheeseshop is a privilege, not a right.The PSF owns the Cheeseshop and can host or not host whatever packages it wants for whatever reasons it wants. It's also responsible for making those decisions.
There's nothing brave or noble about aiding and abetting the promulgation of abuse.
One more thing. The fact that the PSF never even ...
Simon Hibbs · 2011-07-04T13:14:40.845000
One more thing.The fact that the PSF never even contacted the package's author/maintainer just reinforces my opinion that this is a case of collective responsibility-dodging. It appears that a polite request is all it would have taken.
We'll never know, will we? This begs the ques...
Steve · 2011-07-04T13:30:46.667000
We'll never know, will we? This begs the question of why an English-speaking author would willingly choose a name like "pantyshot" in the first place. If you had read the comments above you would have sen me acknowledge that contacting Frank Smit directly would have been preferableNote that "the PSF" felt (which is to say the Board collectively decided) that it was not our place to start policing the names of packages in the cheese shop. Therefore this post was not made on the PSF blog.
Just the same, if this makes people think twice before choosing obviously contentious names then we may have done something to make the open source environment slightly less hostile to women. Anyone who says that isn't a desirable goal is still living in the 20th (or should that be 19th?) century.
@Frank Smit: an otaku member of the PSF has explai...
Steve · 2011-07-04T15:43:13.441000
@Frank Smit: an otaku member of the PSF has explained the associations of the new name in anime. It sounds like rather an apt choice!@Steve: Heh, I first had to figure out what "...
Frank Smit · 2011-07-04T16:48:16.558000
@Steve: Heh, I first had to figure out what "apt" means. I'm happy everything is solved now.It's sad to see that political correctness has...
Anonymous · 2011-07-05T08:30:46.164000
It's sad to see that political correctness has leaked to the OSS world.@Amanda C: Not only is it juvenile, it is offe...
Anonymous · 2011-07-05T09:07:24.196000
@Amanda C:Not only is it juvenile, it is offensive and troubling that someone would title any project "upskirt".
How is it troubling that there are immature people on the internet? Are you really that easily offended? Let me recommend something non-interactive, like CSPAN or button collecting. The internet is *not* for you, too much free speech can be overwhelming for some.
The title conjures images of personal privacy violations and sexual assault (albeit non-violent, though that shouldn't diminish it's impact).
People can indulge in 'deviant' activity safely and harmlessly; an act like this doesn't have to be assault, and making this assumption proves you to be as small-minded as the people who made this (maybe moreso, since there's a chance they did it to spark debate or be racy, whereas you are obviously reacting in a knee-jerkish fashion).
Furthermore, it makes light of a fairly gender-specific issue, causing me to raise an eyebrow about the creator's attitude towards women in general.
Fair enough, but sometimes men wear skirts, too. Pretty gender-specific, though, yeah.
Perhaps I don't know enough about programming and software culture to "get it."
Now you're just playing dumb. People are posting here to denounce this and you're sighing melodramatically and shaking your head. "Maybe I'm just a silly country girl and I just don't 'get it'..." Nobody gets it, they're probably 15 years old. The point of this post is that this sort of childish behaviour doesn't -- and shouldn't -- be considered representative of the programming (specifically py/os) community, which is very friendly, respectful, and welcoming to anyone who is willing to put forth the time and effort to become a part of it.
As the partner of someone who is very active in the Python community, I've heard so much about what is being done to make the Python community more open and welcoming to women; You can imagine how surprised and appalled I was upon reading this.
Because someone named a python package 'upskirt' or 'pantyshot'? Grow up, please. "Picture of girl in underpants" should *not* send you into this kind of tizzy, and the fact that it caused such a kerfuffle as to merit so much attention (board and Guido himself) should be indicative that this is absolutely not the norm.
I find it hard to believe that anyone would consider it "censorship" to disallow the use of sexually perverse language that implies any form of sexual exploitation.
Well, FUCK YOU. I find it hard to believe you are so quick to compromise one of the most basic (and probably most important) tenets of freedom, and for such a silly reason. If I find homosexuality perverse, or females using computers perverse and unwholesome, or your piercing fetish perverse and disgusting, I have no right to disallow you from naming your creations "gaylove" or "femPower" or "pierced_glans", that's just not how it works.
To allow it seems deleterious to any outreach efforts.
Obviously I'm in the minority here, as most people are so falling over themselves to prove that they can be sensitive and butthurt that they can't see your selfrighteous tirade for what it is, but if you were a representative sample of our outreach targets, I'd cease to be a supporter of said outreach.
I really wish developers would give their projects...
postmodern · 2011-07-05T09:09:56.597000
I really wish developers would give their projects meaningful names. Upskirt or Pantyshot tells us nothing, and is just pandering for some laughs.Names, they should mean something.
You should definitely submit an Issue about the na...
Anonymous · 2011-07-05T09:18:18.622000
You should definitely submit an Issue about the name of Upskirt on the GitHub project (https://github.com/tanoku/upskirt/issues). Blog posts can only accomplish so much, eventually bugs or patches have to be submitted.PS: Apparently @tanoku decided just now to rename Pantyshot to Misaka (https://github.com/tanoku/upskirt/commit/a87645ed92acee789d9305f26a236ff3d4b3cd62).
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